tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2934843033500707341.post648211485744887976..comments2024-02-08T03:21:56.237-05:00Comments on Irenikon: The Monk Theodore Sikeotes, April 22, and a Eucharistic MiracleElijahmariahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13278394189405309838noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2934843033500707341.post-41055622172352293012010-04-24T07:08:16.294-04:002010-04-24T07:08:16.294-04:00The issue of azymes is not at all settled for all ...The issue of azymes is not at all settled for all of Orthodoxy, so you are offering a personal opinion here however much you are personally convinced it is true. <br /><br />I understand your perspective but it is not universal. In fact the history surrounding the issue is not at all clear either, which is why only a select few Orthodox faithful continue to press the issue. I don't wish to argue with you so I'll leave it at that. You've had your say. Don't press the point, please.<br /><br />M.Elijahmariahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13278394189405309838noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2934843033500707341.post-87104091099473948982010-04-23T22:28:15.923-04:002010-04-23T22:28:15.923-04:00The fact that Lanciano did occur when the Churches...The fact that Lanciano did occur when the Churches were not yet separated is irrelevant. The spread of the heresies that led to the separation began long before it happened. <br />One point seems to be of real import. It is said that the priest in question "used the same size host which is used in the Latin Rite Masses today". That would suggest that the host was made of unleavened bread. <br />The Orthodox Church condemns the use of azymes. Therefore Lanciano fell under condemnation even if not explicitly pronounced. It was a sign of divine displeasure at the use of unleavened bread. It shows that the Spirit is absent!seraphimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13804487873268748108noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2934843033500707341.post-13281743612088778142010-04-23T18:15:53.941-04:002010-04-23T18:15:53.941-04:00No need to be sorry. The people who read this blo...No need to be sorry. The people who read this blog are generally intelligent faithful people and they know that your assertion that these events are inherently demonic is no more a surety than to say it is inherently holy.<br /><br />There are cases where Christ cast out demons so it is not outside of the realm of the possible that through a Eucharistic miracle he could encourage a soul to avoid demonic influences. Your logic is not infallible here, nor is it particularly logical given the history and traditions in the Church.<br /><br />Some Orthodox do not automatically see demons in Eucharistic miracles, some do.<br /><br />What seems acceptable to me is to be cautious of all extraordinary events, miracles and wonderworks.<br /><br />MaryElijahmariahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13278394189405309838noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2934843033500707341.post-59773107085557145962010-04-23T15:25:25.261-04:002010-04-23T15:25:25.261-04:00He may or may not have been condemned, but neither...He may or may not have been condemned, but neither has it been confirmed by the Orthodox as being from God. It should also be noted that Lanciano's doubt is documented in no uncertain terms (emphasis added): <br /><br />"<i>...there was a priest of the order of St. Basil who, though learned in the sciences of the world, was ignorant in ways of God, and was <b>not strong in his faith</b>. He was <b>plagued by a doubt</b> as to whether the consecrated Host was truly the Body of Christ, and the consecrated wine truly His Blood. <b>He had difficulty believing in the mystery of transubstantiation </b>(the miraculous changing of the bread and wine into the Body and Blood of Christ)."</i> <br /><br />That the RCC has recognized this as a true miracle (quite late it may be added), this is quite disturbing.<br /><br />As to the post-schism case in Portugal: we learn about a woman who under pretense, following the demonic influence of a sorcerer, takes of the host. Demonic origin can easily be seen in all this. Sorry.Apophatically Speakinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02977708733244180404noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2934843033500707341.post-41430153680244408862010-04-23T10:47:00.003-04:002010-04-23T10:47:00.003-04:00Some Orthodox consider the transformation to be de...Some Orthodox consider the transformation to be demonic in origin. Granted.<br /><br />Lanciano was never condemned and it did occur while our now-separated confessions were still in communion. But I chose to highlight the later Portuguese occurrence precisely because it was not connected to a doubting priest or monk and it did not occur during the consecration.<br /><br />But you see in the article that I do not condemn Orthodox faithful for be concerned or even for declaring outright a demonic source. As with all things, time and the Holy Spirit will tell. We are not in a hurry.<br /><br />MaryElijahmariahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13278394189405309838noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2934843033500707341.post-46736834383577178242010-04-23T01:29:42.203-04:002010-04-23T01:29:42.203-04:00There is an obvious difference between the miracle...There is an obvious difference between the miracles produced during the celebration of the Liturgy by St. Theodore Sikeotes and the "Eucharistic miracles as recorded in the west". What the Orthodox consider of demonic origin is the actual transformation of the Eucharistic species in flesh and blood. The teaching of the Orthodox Church is that this phenomenon is always related to the lack of faith of the celebrant in the real presence of the Lord in the bread and wine, or to ritual impurity. What is hardly ever mentioned about the miracle of Lanciano, is the fact that the Eucharist was celebrated with unleavened bread, one of the first occurrences of this frightful innovation, which eventually led to the Schism. <br />The miracles of St. Theodore are clearly of a different nature. There is no flesh and blood.seraphimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13804487873268748108noreply@blogger.com